by Jiří “G4ndy” Mataj - Interview in Czech language
After my video interview with Bert Huntsinger, the “World Creator” (level designer) of Dungeon Master II, I had the chance to interview Kirk Baker as well. Credited as the “Master of Machines,” Kirk was responsible for programming internal tools and many other aspects of DM2. Although we couldn’t arrange a video interview this time, he generously answered my questions in writing.
Jiri Mataj From your perspective, what was the original intention with DM2? Did the team actively want to make a sequel, or did it feel more like something that was expected/required after DM1’s success? Was there an internal desire to keep DM2 smaller, to a shorter timeline (e.g., roughly a year), and if so, what extended it?
Kirk Baker I’m not sure there really ever was a fully thought out plan. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was our Japanese partners that caused it to happen. You’d have to ask Wayne or Doug.
Jiri Mataj When the first Japanese version shipped, how “complete” did you consider the project from an engineering standpoint, and what work remained for the Western builds (tools, asset integration, QA)?
Kirk Baker They were on separate timelines as I recall. We were in search of a publisher and found Interplay and began working with them. I think we thought it was complete at that time, but things changed when we started looking to release Western versions of DM2.
Jiri Mataj For PC 98/FM Towns/Mega CD, what did the hand off look like between FTL and Victor/JVC — did FTL deliver engine/source and tools with porting guides, or was FTL still hands on with platform engineering? Were there notable differences among those three Japanese targets?
Kirk Baker We always tried to make each platform shine wherever possible, taking advantage of hardware whenever we could reasonably do so. I don’t believe that our Japanese partners ever wrote any code or that we ever shared any code with them, but I could be wrong.
Jiri Mataj What were the first concrete requests or changes once Interplay became involved for the PC/Mac releases (e.g., 256 color art pipeline, UI/UX adjustments, certification, QA expectations)?
Kirk Baker I don’t have any recollections at the detail level you’re asking for, but they definitely wanted 256 color images and double-resolution on the Mac version, but in the end we went with licensed upscaler that kind of rounded things off and looked kind of funky.
Interplay did provide some QA testing as I recall, and they did a lot of the 256-color art rework (tracing over the original art and enhancing it, painstakingly).
Jiri Mataj Early builds are often described as instant tile to tile, while some later versions appear to interpolate a half step. Why was that added? If it was introduced during the Western cycle, was it engineering driven, usability driven, or publisher requested?
Kirk Baker I believe that we decided to do that with the Interplay (Western) versions. Doug would probably know more about that since he was the graphics engine guy.
Jiri Mataj What were the hardest technical concessions for Amiga and Sega Mega CD vs. DOS/Mac (memory budgets, streaming audio, controller vs. mouse)? Any platform specific optimizations you recall?
Kirk Baker The Mega-CD was a pain in the ass. We got Dennis Walker to come back to the company for that version and he had do to a lot of work to compress animation frames to make everything fit.
Jiri Mataj To what extent did supporting Amiga and older Japanese PCs influence core decisions from the outset — art targets, memory footprints, puzzle scope, AI behavior? How much did “lowest common denominator” constraints shape the final feature set?
Kirk Baker While there were constraints for each system, nothing about level design was affected. Mostly it affected the quality of the images themselves on a per-platform basis.
Jiri Mataj What engineering was needed to support the 256 color asset upgrade and divergent music technologies (MIDI/MOD/CD Audio) across platforms?
Kirk Baker Image wise, new functions had to be written (in assembly) to deal with 8-bit images vs. 4-bit images. Audio wise, some platforms had CD drives and we could play music on them basically for free. Others had great sound chips (X68000) - I worked on the Sharp X68000 version and wrote an interrupt driven MIDI music player that was used in the cutscenes (and possibly elsewhere, I don’t fully recall).
Jiri Mataj Is there a particular subsystem or feature in DM2 that you personally felt proud of at the time — something that “clicked” technically, even if the game itself arrived late in the market?
Kirk Baker I did the fog/weather system and a bunch of other things that I can’t remember anymore. I was initially hired as a tools programmer (macOS, Amiga). I worked on the copy protection system/duplicator too.
Jiri Mataj Looking back today, is there anything about the process — not the technical results — that you feel particularly defined FTL’s way of building games?
Kirk Baker We didn’t have a source code control system, as they weren’t common in those days (at least from what I remember). We’d have daily meetings which became a sore spot because so many of us put in long hours and would arrive late for work.
Jiri Mataj How did the team react when UU arrived? I’ve read that FTL considered a free roaming engine at one point—did you prototype it, and what trade offs led you to retain the tile based approach?
Kirk Baker Wayne had a policy of not looking at what was the state of the art because he didn’t want to influence him. This was one of the reasons why myself and others left the company to work at other games companies. We saw games like Ultima Underworld and Doom and thought that our game was not going to be well received. Too little, too late, irrelevant.
Jiri Mataj How did you personally feel about DM2’s reception when the Western releases arrived? Did any feedback surprise you or prompt “we should have done X differently” reflections?
Kirk Baker It was too little too late, not state of the art, not amazing in any way. I don’t recall looking for reviews of the game in the expectation that it wasn’t going to do well. I’m fairly certain it didn’t do well because I never received any royalty checks for it.
Jiri Mataj Were there internal plans or prototypes for follow ups (a DM3, a full 3D build, or other projects) before FTL wound down? What were you personally working on then?
Kirk Baker I left the company in 1996, and by that point it was just Wayne, Doug, and myself, and they were really interested in raycast engines and Java. I was wrapping up a new release of OIDS to be more compatible with the then current Macintosh computers, but that never shipped from FTL Games, Inc.
Jiri Mataj Is there something about DM2’s development — or the era — that you think tends to be misunderstood by fans or historians?
Kirk Baker Software piracy was rampant back then and it really affected us profoundly. I don’t know if that was well known by gamers back then. There were real people working for low wages that hoped they’d get royalties. I worked at FTL Games, Inc. for six years and earned a grand total of $11,000 in royalties.
Jiri Mataj You are credited on 1997 3D video game “Courier Crisis” for PlayStation/Saturn which was humorous Road Rash - like take on package delivery on bike where you could do stunts and kill pedestrians (which was supposed to be big selling point back then). Game was unfortunately poorly received. I noticed you worked on it together with other ex-FTL programmer Bill Kelly. What role did you have on the game? Did some knowledge of the Japanese computers/videogame systems you gained back while in FTL help you? Did something hindered you?
Kirk Baker I was a tools programmer there too. I wrote the editor for the levels and one that allowed the artists to apply textures to models. That game was ambitious but was hindered by a very poor graphics engine that Bill Kelly and I worked very hard to optimize, even though neither of us wrote the engine. Had we not done that, it would never have shipped (there are minimum frame rate requirements on PlayStation and Saturn). Bill wrote a custom profiler to aid in this effort and it was amazing.
Jiri Mataj Aside Bill Kelly did other staff from FTL also go into New Level Software?
Kirk Baker No, just Bill at first and then he recommended that I go there after things wound down at FTL.
Jiri Mataj Are you in touch with your former FTL colleagues?
Kirk Baker Some of them yes. We had a zoom meeting get-together back in 2021. It was fun to see a bunch of them again.
Jiri Mataj In 2002 you released Mac OS X enhanced port of OIDS. A 2D spacecraft action game described as Choplifter meeting Lunar Lander. Was this remake of highly rated Atari ST FTL game from 1987 your passionate project or just finishing of “unfinished business”?
Kirk Baker OIDS was ported to the Mac in the early 90s. I did a lot of work on it with Dan Hewitt (the author of the original Atari ST version). Joe Holt had originally helped Dan with the port but left the company before I arrived. I did release OIDS 2.0 for Mac OS 8 and 9. Later I made an OpenGL version of OIDS for Mac OS X that I called OIDS.X. I decoupled the physics/collision system from the hardcoded 12 frames per second frame rate that OIDS enforced. This allowed the frame rate to get into the hundreds of frames per second if you had a decent Mac with a hardware video accelerator. Drew Pauley (not an FTL Games employee) redid all of the graphics for 24-bit color, and OIDS never looked better. I sold both versions as shareware for a couple of years but abandoned it once sales tapered off and credit card fees were ramping up.
Jiri Mataj It seems like you were considering return to game development back then in 2002 after britannica.com, before you ended up working on Photo Mechanic software? Did you have some other ideas about games or prototypes?
Kirk Baker No. I became disenchanted with the video games industry due to low wages/lack of profit sharing and heavy workloads. I started a family and needed more time to spend with them and less on video games programming. Working on Photo Mechanic allowed me to work from home and on a much more sane workload.
It’s been a long time (about thirty years) so my recollection at the level of detail you’re asking about just doesn’t exist in my mind anymore.
Kind regards,
-Kirk
Jiri Mataj Thank you very much for your time!